L'Express: We imagine that you will be in front of your television on Saturday evening, since you do not miss an edition of Eurovision?
Clément Beaune: Yes, but even better than that: I am organizing an evening in a bar with friends and activists from the constituency in which I am a candidate. For me, Eurovision is politics in the broad and noble sense of the term: bringing people together around a festive, European moment, but not techno or boring.
You have repeatedly underlined your attachment to Eurovision: why do you think this competition is so important for Europe?
First of all, it's a competition that must be seen for what it is: a moment of joy, a moment of celebration, of eccentricity too, which some have even caricatured as kitsch...
They're not entirely wrong...
There are deliberately excessive moments (laughs), in the lyrics, the styles... Remember the Finns dressed as monsters who make hard rock! It also makes it charming.
Above all, it is a competition that has existed for longer than the European economic community and which has managed to last until today. There are hundreds of millions of viewers, it has no equivalent in terms of European spirit and unity, if we put football aside of course. This says several things, but above all a desire to be together, which goes beyond the simple but famous attribution of points with its ritual known to all.
Above all, you say that Eurovision foreshadowed political developments in Europe...
Yes, because it's true! First by widening the scope: Eurovision is Europe on a larger scale, Europe that shines, a form of "soft power". Australia has been a big push to enter the competition, as a lot of Australians watch it; and there is Israel, countries of Central Asia... It is an open Europe, which assumes itself serenely.
And then, we can clearly see that social and political developments are present. The victory of a transsexual singer in 1998, for example, demonstrates the strength of the messages sent. When Ukraine won, it presented a singer who spoke of her grandmother deported by Stalin... It's still extremely strong. It is a competition that has marked progress before the various political organizations, whether it is the European Union or the Council of Europe, I am thinking in particular of LGBT rights or women's rights. Look at the Russian singer last year, she made a very feminist song, which is not so natural in her country.
It is also a reflection of the world around us for better and for worse: I find the standardization around English very unfortunate, it says something about linguistic domination. I am clearly in favor of returning to the previous rule, where everyone had to sing in their language.
It's probably one of the rare moments when Europeans have the concrete feeling of belonging to a community, isn't it?
For Europeans, there is the Champions League and Eurovision which exalt this common heritage and this community of destiny. There is a form of universality, a common language: everyone has a good time watching a Ukrainian or French song, without always understanding the language, like a good time watching a football match. It's also a good time because it's a competition, but nobody takes Eurovision as a conflict. It sums up this European spirit: it is better to compete in Eurovision than to compete at all. We speak with our French vision, of a founding country, but for many other Europeans, in the East in particular, it is also a form of integration and European pride to participate and win! Half of the population is in front of the screen because we see Estonia sometimes in the same rank as Germany, sometimes in front; or Lithuania in the same rank as France, sometimes in front. We absolutely must not underestimate this feeling, it is very important, and it brings us together.
Do you have any particular memories, references?
I have a very personal memory of 1998, the year of my French baccalaureate, it does not make me younger... There was an Israeli trans singer, Dana International, for me, as a young boy, it was an important symbol . Here we find the unique mixture of Eurovision: a very pop song, a little kitsch, but people of all generations, from all countries, choose to make a trans singer win! It gave the signal that there could be great messages of tolerance, which there were not yet within more institutional frameworks like the European Union.
What is for you the winning recipe to hope - finally! - win Eurovision?
It's kind of at the same time (sic). We must accept common codes: this universal, a subject, a theme, a message, which speaks to everyone; a striking and lively song. This is perhaps what France did not do before in recent years. But it is also necessary, on the other side, not to erase the identity and the substance of the message. Typically, last year, it was the right recipe! Barbara Pravi was somewhat compared to Barbara, or to Piaf, but it was very modern, catchy, with real musical quality and text. She finished second, the best performance for 30 years, it's no coincidence: she was extremely French, without being cliché, and extremely European.
Is it relevant to have excluded the Russians from the competition when it is a competition in which, a priori, politics has no place?
It's always a difficult balance to find, because you mustn't cut ties with a people and a society. Nevertheless, the songs are sometimes linked to power, it would have been difficult to understand and explain that, in front of millions of television viewers in Europe and beyond, Russia was applauded out loud as if nothing had happened. Or even being booed, that wouldn't have been a good image. Eurovision reflects our lives, the difficult news, at the same time there is a way of life that is ours: meeting up with friends, sharing, partying, that remains essential. It is the first organization to have taken the decision on February 25 to exclude Russia. Politics in the deepest sense of the term must take its place in Eurovision, because it is also a question of the life of the city and the common life. And look at the message carried by the Ukrainians! The Ukrainians held, despite the dramatic context, to give special authorization to the members of their group to allow them to go to Italy when they were mobilized to bear arms. There is a real feeling of national pride with this desire to say "we are here, despite what is happening, we want to be in the front row in Europe". If we talk about politics in the sense of shared emotion, it is certain that many viewers will also vote with their hearts for Ukraine.
Can we hope to see France win under Macron II? Is it comparable to the football World Cup that every president wants to win?
Sure ! I will not speak in terms of popularity curve or economic growth (laughs) but that France wins is a real objective. France Télévisions has reinvested a great deal, whether in broadcasting or in selection, with real casting professionals. We find a more local and regional dimension this year, but very modern. There is much greater professionalism and commitment. So, I'm not saying that victory is guaranteed, but we have more chances, that's for sure!
Forgive me for digressing a little from the song, but there are other important European subjects at the moment: Emmanuel Macron, on May 9 in Strasbourg, called for the creation of a "European political community "which would not be the Union, nor the euro zone, nor Schengen. What is the point of building a new stratum?
This is a proposal that seeks to address two concerns. The first concerns Ukraine, mainly, but also Moldova or Georgia. Should we integrate Ukraine into the European project? Obviously. It is a support for its freedom and its prosperity, and Ukraine legitimately wants it. In the middle of the war, President Zelensky found the time to answer hundreds of pages of questions to prove his desire to join the Union, and this was undoubtedly one of Vladimir Putin's first failures.
But, can the Union expand without difficulty? No. Can we afford to be hypocritical or dishonest in saying that with ten more members, tens of millions more inhabitants, the Union would work better? No more. We need to do two things: reform the European Union, reduce the scope of unanimous voting for example, and create what the president called this "European political community" to avoid a lose-lose agreement that would see countries waiting ten, maybe fifteen years without prospects or the Union will be diluted in an ill-prepared enlargement. It is therefore the idea proposed by the President to have a complementary circle, a greater political Europe, which would unite the countries through European values and geography. We could find Ukraine, Moldova, the United Kingdom as well, in a completely different genre! The message is as follows: we must invent something other than "move on, there's nothing to see, you may be in the Union in fifteen years and in the meantime see you soon". There is a missing link. I also say it: it is not a preconceived French idea, we must discuss it all together as Europeans.
