Heir to outgoing PM: 'Johnson operated as a brilliant Pied Piper'

A turbulent era ends with Johnson's retirement.

Heir to outgoing PM: 'Johnson operated as a brilliant Pied Piper'

A turbulent era ends with Johnson's retirement. But to only remember the Tory as a dubious Hallodri means playing it down, explains publicist Albrecht von Lucke in the ntv interview. His great talent was particularly evident during Brexit: "He was a player from the start."

ntv: As an outside observer, you look at what is happening in London. What are your thoughts on the situation we are experiencing in London at the moment?

It's a ridiculous situation now. We have to realize that this Johnson administration has been going from one crisis to the next for years. There was almost no time when his not-so-long tenure was not shaken by a crisis.

In the eyes of many Europeans, Johnson is considered a hallodri, a dubious, vain figure who compares himself to Churchill, who celebrates with employees in Downing Street during the corona lockdown. Is that fair to Johnson and his administration?

I believe the picture you paint implies a downplay of the facts. Johnson has a great weakness for Churchill - he also wrote a Churchill biography, also in order to inscribe himself in his line of tradition, so to speak. With his stance on Russia's war of aggression, he tried again to gain foreign policy credit by clearly siding with Ukraine. But to put it bluntly, at its core, Johnson is quite the antithesis of Churchill. What he always claimed to be, namely having stamina, never really supported him from the start. He was a player from the start.

What do you mean?

Let's remember how he led Britain to Brexit. He did so based on a very simple tactical consideration. Cameron, his friend and former fellow student from the same elite group, was in favor of remaining in the EU. On the other hand, he clearly bet against the EU - because he had hope: Then I'd be able to become prime minister. And that is of course, one has to admit, his great talent. He has - and one does not want to use the term because it is improper to call humans animals - but he has operated as the brilliant pied piper of a new populism.

What will remain of Johnson?

Many of his followers have now left the sinking ship. But how many have stayed loyal to the flag? That is the fascination of a man who is ultimately responsible for Great Britain's exit from the EU and, by the way, has also made it very likely that Scotland will possibly leave Great Britain next autumn. He was instrumental in shrinking a Britain into a small Britain. That should be Boris Johnson's devastating legacy. And I think it's going to create a huge thought on the island about how to proceed going forward. It will trigger a tremendous catharsis. What did we do there? What have these past few years been like?

Let's take a European perspective. If Johnson actually resigns, what would that mean for the relationship between the EU and Great Britain, for the negotiations that are still ongoing on so many detailed questions related to Brexit?

If you look at it positively, then it could mean the possibility of a new beginning, that at least the big and difficult negotiations - Ireland, Northern Ireland, these border issues - might be conducted more seriously. So far, Johnson has been playing a constant cat-and-mouse game with the EU. In the end, he threw all the agreements upside down at a gallop. One can only hope that something like more serious politics will take hold on the island again. That could then also give some hope for a new beginning in the relationship between Great Britain and the European Union.

Is there a way back to the EU?

Even if certain hopes are burgeoning again: Great Britain, driven by Johnson and his UKIP compañeros, has probably finally taken the step out of the European Union. In this respect, one cannot have any hope that this will be undone so soon. Because I'm afraid that would also trigger enormous turmoil on the island. But one can hope in every respect that conditions will improve, because in the best case scenario one is dealing with a reliable partner again. But for that to happen, a lot will have to change on the island as a whole.

What exactly needs to change?

You have to be aware of one thing: A Johnson didn't come overnight, nor did he come alone. Of course, he was an impresario of the very highest quality, but very, very many people took part in this project. And the big question is whether the cathartic process of genuine reflection that I have described actually occurs. Then relations between Great Britain and Europe could improve again.

Daniel Schüler spoke to Albrecht von Lucke